Scott Baker: Baking Success as a Mortgage Broker After 20 Years in Retail - Audiolibro Gratis

Scott Baker:

I think out there, it can seem a transactional process for some people, but my background is from retail and customer service, which is about looking after people and doing what you say you're going to do. And I've just kind of brought my retail experience into mortgage broking, and it's flourished.

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Tyrone Shum:

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset, and strategies.

I’m Tyrone Shum and we’re speaking with Toast Finance Founder Scott Baker who left a 20-year career in retail fashion to pursue mortgage broking. Buying his first property in his late 20s, he has since then built a successful business with a strong triple-threat blend of top-tier customer service, deep client connections, and financial literacy.

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The Baker and His Toast

Tyrone Shum:

Realising his passions aligned with property, people, finance, and problem-solving, Baker left a fantastic two-decade-long journey in retail behind. With no safety net—just a spare room and a clear vision—he launched his own broking business.

Scott Baker:

I'm the founder and CEO of Toast Finance—a mortgage broking firm. We're based in Geelong, in Victoria. But yes, [we] service clients around the country. I've had my business just over five years. I've recently rebranded and created Toast [Finance] over the last couple of months, and just launched it to market after previously being in, like, a franchise model for the five years before that.

But, yeah. I had a previous totally different career. I had a previous 20-year career in fashion retail, so I haven't been a mortgage broker my entire life. And I went through one of these, I guess, life moments five and a half [or] six years ago, of like, 'What's next?'

And I'm someone who thrives when I'm under pressure. You know, I got lots on the go, and I got that level of intensity to my work and what I'm doing. And the retail career— it was incredible. I learnt so much. And my last 10 years there was at Cotton On group, which they had offices down in Geelong. And I was working in leadership positions across marketing and customer experience and all those departments.

And yeah, the brand I worked for— we grew up from 15 stores in Australia to 200 stores in five countries.

Tyrone Shum:

Wow.

Scott Baker:

And helped build all the creative departments— marketing, visual merchandising, creative—and helped recruit and mentor the in-country management teams in South Africa, New Zealand, Singapore, and Malaysia. And it was a wild ride. It was so great for my personal development, [and] my business development, because they just threw you in the deep end, and you had to figure it out.

And it was an incredible, incredible experience for me. But getting towards the end of that, I was just not challenged anymore, and I'm like, 'What's next for me?'. And I went through a process of working out what is it in life I'm passionate about, [and] I've got skills in and I love doing? And it's amazing. You get such clarity getting stuff out of your head and onto paper. And I wrote down, like, so many things—work stuff, out of work stuff, like, it didn't really matter.

And I wrote down maybe 50 things, and it bubbled up to four headlines, which was building relationships with people, property and real estate, finance and number-crunching, and problem-solving. And I was like, 'Is there a job that's those four things?'. And I spent, you know, a month on Seek reading job ads and job descriptions—kind of everything in banking and finance, and everything in property and real estate.

I looked at the real estate agent, financial planner, investment banker— like, all these different things. And then I read 'Broker'. I was like, 'Oh my god, it sounds like those four things'. And then I was like, 'I don't want to be a broker like.... No', but I'm like, 'Well, hang on, I think it's these four things that I'm good at, [and] I love doing, [and] I'm passionate about'.

I spoke to our own broker we'd had for years, and told him the story. He's like, 'Look, 80% of it is the people stuff. You got the people skills for that. The rest you just learn as you go'. And I was like, 'Okay, I need to start researching the industry'. So I met with— When you're a broker, you join what's called an 'aggregator', and they give you all your back-end support, the lenders, [and] all that type of stuff.

And I met with different aggregators just to understand the industry. And it was like, 'Okay, do I work for someone to start my own business? Is it a franchise? You know, like, what is it going to be?'. And then after a couple of months of research, it was like 'I need to do this'. Like, ‘I think this is it’.

Our kids were three [years old] and one [year old] at the time. So to leave a nice, paying PAYG job and go and start my own business as a mortgage broker is definitely a risk. But yeah, I resigned. I called my boss at Cotton On— and he'd gotten a plane to Brisbane, so I couldn't do it face to face. But I was like, 'I need to resign and go and start my own business and become a mortgage broker'. And he's, like, almost fell off his chair.

And yeah, I told him the story, and he's like, Well, what do you want to do? I was like, 'I've got to finish now’. I'm like, 'My brain is over here already. You know, I'd be doing the wrong thing by the company just to hang around for four weeks because it's the HR policy. Like, I've got to go'. And I never went back.

My wife works there. She still works there today, and so she went and cleaned up my desk the next day. And then I had to study get qualified, and then yeah. And off I went and started my business from the spare room at home.

On the Daily Grind

Tyrone Shum:

With a big-picture mindset and a drive to connect with people, Baker brings a strategic, long-term lens to every client conversation. For him, it’s never just about the loan—it’s about helping people shape the future they’re working towards.

Scott Baker:

As a team— I've got two other brokers in the team, and a client services manager. And, look, a big part of the day is we're helping our clients achieve their goals. And at our business, I'm big on the visionary stuff and understanding, like, what do you want to achieve in the long term? What does five [years] or 10 years look like?

Because I think out there, it can seem a transactional process for some people, but my background is from retail and customer service, which is about looking after people and doing what you say you're going to do. And I've just kind of brought my retail experience into mortgage broking, and it's flourished. And I really...

For me, it's such a key component of what I drive into the team to do is about the relationship-building and really getting to know people like where are they from? What do they do? What are their goals in life? What are their dreams? You know, that's kind of the meaty conversation that I love getting into with our clients, and getting them to understand that, like, this is not just about a home loan; that's the 5% at the end. Like, I want to be your partner for the next 30 years.

And I always look at a new client meeting a bit like a job interview. And I look at it like they're interviewing me to be their broker for the next 30 years. And I look at it like if you want to build a relationship with someone over the long term, like, what have you got to do? We've got to get to know them. You've got to get personal. You've got to share stuff about you and find out about them. So that's kind of very much our approach with our clients.

And, yeah, we're helping them through lending achieve all of their goals. And I look at it like [this] as well: Anyone who's got, like, a big goal to achieve in life, generally involves needing to borrow money.

Tyrone Shum:

Yeah.

Scott Baker:

And that could be your first car, your first house, expand your business, your sixth investment property—like, whatever it is, big goals generally need some leverage, to borrow, to help people achieve them. And that's where I kind of see us: as that partner—a partner to help you achieve your goals throughout your life.

Tyrone Shum:

That sounds great. So, Scott, are you more of a holistic type of lending business or mortgage broking, or do you focus mostly on, say, property itself?

Scott Baker:

We do lending for everything. I mean, probably 70% of what we do is mortgages. Yeah, mortgages and residential property, but the rest is, yeah, commercial personal loans, business finance, and asset finance. But yeah, most of it is property, and a big part of it is around strategic planning.

It's like, 'Cool. This is where you want to be in five [years] to 10 years. Love it. Let's kind of work back from there and put together a bit of a game plan on what you need to do to get there'.

Tyrone Shum:

Yes.

Scott Baker:

And that might be property one now, and in a couple of years’ time, property two, etc, etc. And then we work with them ongoing, just to see how that road map’s going.

From Sydney to Melbourne to Geelong

Tyrone Shum:

Thinking back to his early chapter in life, Baker speaks openly about how the choices and chances, along with his drive for progress and a well-timed move shaped his path.

Scott Baker:

I'm from Sydney, originally. Born and bred up in Sydney. Grew up there in the northwest area in Cherry Brook. Yeah, [I] lived in the same house with my family till my early 20s. And then, yeah, [I] moved out for a couple of years and moved to Wollstonecraft, just right near the city in Sydney.

Tyrone Shum:

Yeah.

Scott Baker:

And then yeah, I moved to Melbourne after that— and that's probably about 17 years ago, I think we've just established. So, yeah, [I] moved to Melbourne about 17 years ago for a career opportunity within retail industry I was in at the time. I didn't have a lot of commitments, and I was someone who was big on growth. I wanted to progress my career, and at the time in the retail industry, most of the head offices are in Melbourne.

So an opportunity came up, and I moved to Melbourne about 17 years ago. [I] lived in Melbourne about four years or so, and then when I met my now wife, she was from Geelong, and then I moved down to Geelong 12 or 13 years ago. So yeah, Geelong has been the home 12 or 13 years. I've got two young kids— two boys who are about to turn... well, no, one's just turned nine [years old]. The other turns seven [years old] next week. So yeah, Geelong is the home now for me, for the business, and definitely the place for the foreseeable future.

Tyrone Shum:

That sounds amazing. It's always interesting how people move from Sydney down to Melbourne. And I always go, what is the attraction? And I'm kind of a bit jealous, because of the lifestyle.

Scott Baker:

It is good down here. Something when I first moved to Melbourne, one thing that hit me straight away was, like, it's just so easy to get everywhere. Like, if you're driving, the whole road network is so gridded and structured that it's... if you're going to new places, it's relatively easier to get places. And I reckon if you're in Melbourne for your life and then moved to Sydney, I reckon Sydney would be quite overwhelming.

Tyrone Shum:

It's quite confusing. I know, I know, even though I lived in Sydney all my life. But that's the reason why I like going down to Melbourne as well.

Scott Baker:

Love it.

The Formative Years

Tyrone Shum:

Skipping the textbook route, Baker threw himself into work early on. No plan set in stone, just grit—and a knack for connecting with people fueled him, thus setting the stage for everything ahead.

Scott Baker:

Growing up in Cherry Brook, I went to Cherry Brook Primary School. I went there till Grade 4, and then after that, I went to Barker College up in Hornsby that's one of my brothers [went to].

I was there through schooling. And after school, I didn't study at all.

Tyrone Shum:

Yep.

Scott Baker:

I didn't really know what I wanted to do at the time. For me, I was working in retail, kind of casual, whilst still at school.

Tyrone Shum:

Yep.

Scott Baker:

And I love that. I loved working. I loved working with people. I loved helping people. I loved that people component to what retail was. And yeah, I just started working full-time in retail after that. I was working for the original Levi's store in Pitt Street Mall in the city. I don't think it's there anymore; [this was back in] early 2000s.

But yeah, I just started working full-time, and then my retail career progressed from just on the sales floor, to store management, to visual merchandising. And yeah, from there, [I] worked for Mooks. Again, [to] Mooks, [it] went 20 years ago. But there were Mooks stores around. Worked at Mooks City Beach. And, yeah, my retail career really progressed from there.

Live Your Life… Today!

Tyrone Shum:

Baker contemplates his journey with deep gratitude, highlighting how pivotal moments have steered his trajectory. A recent adventure out of his comfort zone serves as a wake-up call to embrace life fully, without waiting for the ‘perfect time’ to live.

Scott Baker:

It's interesting even reflecting on where I'm at now. And I've done a lot of reflecting in the last few years on my business, broking, or just my life journey. I turned 40 [years old] last year, and last year was a big year of...

Tyrone Shum:

Oh, congratulations.

Scott Baker:

Thank you. [Last year was a big year of] a reflection on life. I don't know, it's every 10 years [that] people do it, but you know... And I went on a big trek to Patagonia and South America to treat myself.

For my 40th, I was, like, I want to treat myself. You know, for my whole working life, I've never cruised. Everything's been done [with] my best effort intensity. I've tried hard. I've worked hard. And for my 40th, I just want to do something just for me. I want to go on a crazy adventure somewhere, out of my comfort zone, like, no email contact, no social media, none of that stuff, out of the comfort zone.

And after 12 months of research, I was like, 'It's Patagonia'. I'm going to go to the Torres del Paine. I did [the] W Trek.

Tyrone Shum:

Oh, that is amazing.

Scott Baker:

I had about 10 days, yeah, down the bottom tip of South America in Chile, and then met my wife and kids in Queenstown, New Zealand, on the way home [for a] holiday to reconnect.

It was just incredible. And it just was a big reminder of ‘You've got to live your life along the way’.

Tyrone Shum:

Totally, totally.

Scott Baker:

You don't want to be like waiting for, 'I'll just wait till all the kids are old enough', or 'I'll just wait till...' you know, because you might not get the chance.

The Value of Deep Connections

Tyrone Shum:

Recalling the shift from when his focus moved from direct customer interaction to shaping experiences behind the scenes, Baker underscores the value of deep connections.

For me, it's about experience. And my retail days, I think, are grounded in the experience that you can give people, and where that started as being on the sales floor to getting into store experience and visual merchandising. I love that we could create a store experience that would drive sales, and you get an outcome, and people would come in and feel excited and inspired and want to buy that top or that jacket or that outfit, whatever it is.

I love that almost through visual psychology, you can influence people to be like, 'Wow, this feels amazing. I feel great. I'm going to buy this, buy this, buy that'. So as I progressed through from shop floor to visual merchandising to even head office, I think my mindset has always just been around, 'What's the experience?'. Because I think at the end of the day, that is what it is about. How are you inspiring people and influencing them to drive sales?

And then, even as I started to lead teams and build teams, again, I've always been big on from the leadership perspective, like, what's the experience that we're having together? What's the experience that you're having that's going to get the best out of you? Yeah, I think it's definitely been grounded in that.

Simple But Effective Strategies

Tyrone Shum:

With a commitment to elevate the client experience, Baker bullets the key strategies he has always followed to build deeper relationships and deliver more than what’s expected.

Scott Baker:

It's funny, you know, like, I put the success in my business in a short time, down to customer experience. I'm in a service industry. And so many other service industries—[like] accountants, financial planners, all that type of stuff—actually don't get the service proposition right, and there's nothing groundbreaking we do. The simple strategies are around: Do what you say you're going to do...

Tyrone Shum:

Yeah.

Scott Baker:

Get back to people. You know, don't leave people hanging. I've learnt that people just want to be kept informed. If something's running late or it's not on the timeline, that's okay, but, like, get on the front foot so they're not following you up.

In our team here, I talk about the follow-up strategy, and I'm like, 'I never want any client have to follow us up. If they're following us up, we're not doing our job right'. It's like we're going to follow you up. And it's like, if we get to a Friday, and we don't have any updates, you'll still get an email to lo, 'Hey, we're expecting an update on Tuesday. We're all over it. Have a great weekend. Enjoy'. And they're like, 'Oh, these guys are all over it'. So again, I just bring that back down to service and experience and doing what you say you're going to do.

I don't know if there was never a light bulb moment, but I think it's 20 years in retail, which, even if you're working in a head office-type role, retail, again, is still about the customer. You know, we've got to listen to our customer. So I think it's just been kind of ingrained into my DNA since I started working in retail when I was 15 [years old]. And customer [service] is about the people and listening to people—like listening to what do they want? How can I help you?

That stuff and that patience and being able to listen is a powerful tool to be able to do. And it sounds easy. Like, sure, yeah, we go listen. But being out like listening to able to understand what they want and be able to help them, I think, is that key ingredient.

A Personal Learning Curve

Tyrone Shum:

Acknowledging his journey as a leader wasn’t always clear-cut, Baker gives us an inside look to how a shift in perspective was key to his success, especially as he navigated diverse teams across multiple cultures.

Scott Baker:

I think something that took me a number of years to understand when I started to lead teams and manage people, is why is everyone not like me? Why does everyone not have the same... whether it be attention to detail, same drive, or same look on things. And that took me a long time to understand, and it was a steep learning curve, when managing people, that we're all different.

We all have different aspirations. Work is a different thing. Like, not everyone wants to be the CEO, and it's, like, now I've learnt that's cool. Like, you need people in your team, in your organisation, that it is just a nine-to-five. They're great at what they do, but they want to go home and not think about work— like, that is cool. But if they're great doing what they do, [that's] amazing.

And that, from a leadership perspective, really helped me understand how to get the most out of people. And it's really understanding through regular connections and catch-ups and, like, not formal performance reviews, but just like, again, building the relationship with them. You know, what is work to them? What are they doing outside work? I'm big on understanding, like, how are you outside work? What's going on in your life? What are you doing? Can I help you achieve that? Like, what's what's going on?

And I think because everyone's motivations are quite different with work and what work is, I learnt a lot from a leadership perspective to speak and how to get the most out of people through that journey. And on top of that, as well, having to lead and manage teams in different countries, that was another thing. When we first opened stores... New Zealand was pretty easy, very similar to Australia. But in South Africa, Singapore, [and] Malaysia, [they had] different cultures.

And again, of going through these learnings, why is everyone not like me? But you then overlay a different culture. And again, that presented its own challenges, not just with how they work and how they interact, but they're also like on the other side of the world. So we would travel there every couple of months to work with them on the ground, but a lot of it was phone and videos and things. So you know that that overlaid its own challenges as well.

Progress Over Perfection

Tyrone Shum:

Truly a man well-versed in overcoming obstacles, Baker calls to mind the milestone moment he saw the saying ‘progress outweighs perfection’ in action.

Scott Baker:

My first 12 months at Cotton On—the brand I worked for at the time was Factorie, and Factorie had just really been incepted; it had about 15 stores. And we took that, I think, from about 20 stores in June, [then] by Christmas, we had 50 stores.

So within six months, we doubled the size of the business. And the few months leading into Christmas, I remember, was just insane with with speed. And a big thing I learnt from my time at Cotton On was around speed over perfection. And it was around: What if we can get it done 80% right? That's enough to keep moving on to the next thing. And that was about a store opening.

We'd get a store maybe 80% there, then we'd leave it with the team who were going to be working in the store, because we had to get on a plane to go from Perth to Cairns to Brisbane to all over the place to get to the next store, [and] get it open. So there was this... yeah, that was something I learnt a lot from my time at Cotton On is that speed over perfection.

Because retail was such a fast-moving industry and things constantly change, so there's no point in spending months trying to get it perfect when we're going to change it in a month anyway. Like, let's just get it 80% [done and] move on to the next thing. That's enough to keep the momentum going and keep the business growing.

With regards to other countries, yeah, fascinating stories—even dealing with shop fitters and things in South Africa, especially, so many more workers there building the store, but the productivity was significantly less. So we had many examples. We were like, 'We're opening the store at 9 a.m. tomorrow, and they're still putting ground in bricks and all types of things'.

And everyone just has to work together. We work together. We're working in and around each other to get stuff done and deliver the store opening in the morning, but it was a real steep learning curve those first few years, especially [since there were] so many stores in a short amount of time, constantly hiring people, because we just got to ‘support the growth, support the growth’. And it was kind of like, 'Act now, we'll figure it out later'. That's kind of almost a bit of the bit of the approach.

On Discipline and Consistency

Tyrone Shum:

Moving from the fast-paced environment of the retail industry to mortgage broking, Baker recounts the adjustments he has made and the core disciplines he has harnessed.

Scott Baker:

To take that change from, yeah, retail career to starting my own business out of the spare room at home, and just me and me doing everything, I knew it was going to be a challenge. But I also knew deep down, I knew, like, I'm going to give this a red hot crack. I wasn't going to cruise and be like, 'I'll play golf twice a week' and none of that stuff. I'm like, 'You know that'll come maybe in 10 years...

Tyrone Shum:

[Or] after when the kids move out. [laughs]

Scott Baker:

Yeah. But I'm, like, I know I'm not going to leave any stone unturned to really give this a crack. And I knew if it didn't work out, and I did it for 12 months, I could go back and get another retail job somewhere, and life would go on.

Tyrone Shum:

Yeah.

Scott Baker:

I knew that the backup plan was okay. It wasn't like, 'Oh my god, we're going to be out the streets'. It was going to be none of that stuff. I was like, 'All right, head down, bum up. I'm going to go hard at this and see what I can turn it into'. And you just got to keep at it and keep consistent.

And Cotton On taught me a lot about systems and processes, and I brought a lot of that structure into my own business. And talking to other brokers who I've spoken to over the years, who are on their own, they struggle with procrastination; they struggle with processes because they're on their own, and they can get distracted and all this stuff. So I was able to bring, I guess, from the corporate world, a lot of the disciplines around process and consistency just into my own business from day one.

And even simple things, like, you know, I'd block out my calendar and set meetings with myself.

Tyrone Shum:

Yeah, yeah, that's great.

Scott Baker:

So I would be like, 'Right, at 10 a.m. on a Monday, I'm going to have a pipeline review', and that was just with me. But visually and psychologically, I can see it in my calendar. I know that's what I'm going to do. And on Thursday, I'm going to do marketing. On Friday, I'm going to do this, all this stuff. And that just really helped build disciplines around doing certain activities each week that I need to do to try and grow this into a business.

Tyrone Shum:

Yeah.

Scott Baker:

And I learnt early on around trying to work on all parts of your business each week. Because when you're on your own, you're the CEO, you're the cleaner, you're the marketing manager, you're the you know... like, you're everything. So you can't just do deals all week, because then your pipeline will dry up.

So you need to be marketing each week. You need to be working on deals. You need to be doing business development. You need to be doing admin. You need to be doing accounting. And blocking out time each week helped me stay disciplined to that, which meant the business could start to grow and go from there.

Property as a Powerful Tool

Tyrone Shum:

Baker is undeniably a picture of grit, determination, and strategic thinking. Realising the power of property as a stepping stone for growth, he took the plunge and put skin in the game—thus buying his first real estate investment a few years before turning 30.

Scott Baker:

My first property I purchased was a two-bedroom apartment in Saint Kilda East in Melbourne. Yeah, I was... How old was I then? I'm going to say mid to late 20s, maybe about 27 [years old] or so. And yeah, I'd been living in Melbourne a couple of years. And yeah, just I wanted to get onto the property market. Yeah, it was a little two-bedroom apartment, which I owned for, I think, nine years.

And it's been an interesting learning journey for me with property, especially my first one. Because when I'm young, you just hear, 'Oh, you go buy property. Buy lots of properties. You own them forever'. So I was like, 'I never want to sell any property'. So I almost had the blinkers on of like, 'Well, I'll just keep this'. But I... through years of life and wisdom and things like that, you've got to treat property like any other investment. It's got to be reviewed.

Some properties work. Some properties don't work. What are you going to do? So at some point it might be like, ‘I need to cut my losses and move on to the next thing’. Yes, I might lose a bit here, but it means I can get on to the next thing which is going to accelerate my growth. So, yeah, that was my first property.

Tyrone Shum:

Excellent. Was that a property that you lived in just initially, while you're living in Melbourne? Or was that an investment property?

Scott Baker:

Yeah, it was a property I lived in. I didn't live in it for long, because maybe six to 12 months later, Kate, my wife—my now wife—, we're talking about moving in together, and we both both worked in Geelong at the time, so it was it would make no sense for her to move to Melbourne, even though I was trying to convince her of coming over. But I moved down to Geelong and with her, and then I turned it into an investment property, I think, within about 12 months or so.

And it had the same tenant in there the entire time. And that property was an interesting one. So I initially wanted to buy in Elwood.

Tyrone Shum:

Okay.

Scott Baker:

I was living living in Elwood previously. Love the area. If you're not from Melbourne, it's Bayside, near Saint Kilda—beautiful, beautiful suburbs. And Saint Kilda East is actually just one suburb away. It's very close, but it's over kind of a main arterial road, and anything over the other side of that road was like a whole price point lower, and I couldn't afford the Elwood apartment as much as I would have loved to. I just couldn't afford it.

Yes, Saint Kilda East is what I could afford. And the property had some negatives to us, which... So one thing, it was opposite of a train line—this apartment block.

Tyrone Shum:

That could be a positive.

Scott Baker:

Yes, I mean, your noise... The apartment was the back of the block. It was a small boutique block of about eight, so it was at the back of the block downstairs, but it was opposite a train line, but also next to like a commercial property—like a church or some warehouse or something.

Tyrone Shum:

Okay.

Scott Baker:

I can't remember.

Tyrone Shum:

Yeah.

Scott Baker:

But these were some attributes that, look, in hindsight, that's what I could afford at the time. So I know, yes, we talk about location being important and north facing and walkability and all these different things, but I look at that and I go, 'If that is the opportunity that someone can have to get into the market, I'm like take that opportunity', because you're better off owning an asset that the mortgage can be paying down; you're getting tax-deductible benefits if it's an investment property.

All of that stuff versus waiting another couple of years for the right property in inverted commas, because by that time, maybe property's gone up in value, and you're priced out even more, and you're having to look further out. And I have this conversation with a lot of first home buyers all the time that your first home is not your forever home.

It serves a purpose for a period of time, but then your goals change. You know, maybe you need more space, maybe you got a partner, maybe you want to renovate. Maybe... whatever it is. Like, I think when our parents were kids, 50 years ago, it was more common that you'd buy a house and you live in that house for 30 years.

Tyrone Shum:

Yes.

Scott Baker:

My parents lived in my family home for, I think, 25 years or so.

Tyrone Shum:

That's right, yep.

Scott Baker:

But these days, property is a different vehicle. It's not just like a thing to live in or... Like, it's a vehicle to help you achieve your goals in life. And if buying a property that maybe you have to compromise on a few aspects to get into the market, like compromise on those aspects. Because you can get a property, get a tenant in, or, if it's your first time, you can get into it, start paying down that mortgage, build up some equity, doing some additions to it, or whatever you might want to do.

An important lesson is, around early on, some compromises on that first property can really help accelerate the long game in time.

Shifting Goals and Unexpected Calls

Tyrone Shum:

Hitting the mark that success in property requires adapting to changing goals—and not just buying and selling—, Baker shares a curious story of how and when they purchased their family’s second home.

Scott Baker:

It's interesting how property, I think... this is back to the whole your goals are going to shift and move in life, and working your property strategy in and amongst that is something that you know you need to do. I mean, I own that apartment. I lived in it for 12 months or so.

Then I moved in with my [wife who] was my girlfriend at the time, and she had a little unit in Geelong. So I turned the unit into an investment property. Now, we did some renovations on that unit. We put a new kitchen, new bathroom, painting, idea, all of that stuff, to really add some value and manufacture equity.

And then we were there maybe a couple of years, but then we were like, 'We want to buy a house together. We want to start a family one day'. So, we're pooling our resources together. And we bought a little three-bedroom house in Geelong West, which was going to be our home again for the foreseeable future. So we then turned that little unit of my Saint Kilda property into two investment properties whilst we lived in Geelong West.

Tyrone Shum:

Fantastic.

Scott Baker:

And that served us again for a period of time until our goals changed and moved. And we had a child. So we had my son, Noah, in 2016 and then my other son, Liam, in 2018. And around that time, we were looking at, 'Well, we're going to need more space. This is a little three-bedroom house', like, think something about, 'Okay, well, they can have to go to school one day. But where are the schools? What schools do we want to send them to? Okay, it's this area. Oh. What types of houses are there? What does more space look like?'.

And we always wanted to do a big renovation one day. So we bought an old period home in Newtown, a little three-bedroom house. And it's actually an interesting story of how we bought that house. We knew we wanted it to be in Newtown because it was near the schools we wanted to send the kids.

Tyrone Shum:

Yep.

Scott Baker:

And we knew we wanted to do a renovation. So we just had one child at the time. So we were just walking the streets with pushing the pram, and we dropped a letter into any house that was on the north side of the street, so we'd have a north-facing backyard and any house that looked like it could do with the renovation.

I think we dropped a letter into maybe 50 houses across heaps of different streets around Newtown.

Tyrone Shum:

Yeah.

Scott Baker:

And one of them called us back, like, five minutes later.

Tyrone Shum:

That is amazing.

Scott Baker:

And he's... Yeah, and he's like, 'Hey, I just got your letter. Like, I'm actually getting ready to put my house on the market. Did you want to come and have a look?'.

So we went and looked at this house, and we're like, 'Oh, my god. It's like...'. So Pakington Street is the main street here in Newtown, and it’s...

Tyrone Shum:

Yep.

Scott Baker:

Yeah, it was so close to Pakington Street. It was north-facing. It was a period home. It was still, like, livable. But it could do with a reno[vation], so you could still put a tenant in it, or live in it for a period. And, yeah, so we put a couple of offers in on that property before it went to market. And again, you know what? Gee, you learn from your experiences. We put two offers in, which, in hindsight, we should have offered more to get it sold off-market.

Tyrone Shum:

Oh.

Scott Baker:

I think it was quoting... Let me try and think. I think it was going to go on the market quoting like, high sixes to low sevens. So this is, like, what, five [or] seven [or] eight or nine years ago now. High sixes to low sevens, like, all right, well, let's put an offer in mid-sixes. I think we did $630,000 and then $650,000, and he's like, 'No, no. Look, we're just going to go to market'.

So it ended up going to auction, and we still bought the house. We'd actually paid $880,000 for it nine years ago, which today [is], like, oh my god, what a bargain. But in hindsight, it's like, 'Wow, if we'd actually just offered him $750,000...' [indiscernible] I know.

So, yeah, we ended up actually buying that house. It was, like, just this sign of, like, 'We've got to have this house. This is the 20-year family home'. It's near the schools, all that stuff. And, yeah, we did a big renovation on it. So we put a tenant in it for nine months while we had plans done. And then did a big renovation and extension, which took about 10 or 11 months, and then, yeah, moved into it just before Christmas [in] 2018.

On Property Performance

Tyrone Shum:

Learning the importance of flexibility in his strategy, Baker explains why thinking counterintuitively doesn’t necessarily mean you’re on the wrong track.

Scott Baker:

And then something about property that, you know... To do that renovation, like, we actually needed to sell one property. So we sold one of the units we owned. And again, my old mindset was, 'Oh no, I'm selling a property'. But I'm like, 'Do you know what? It's helping us achieve bigger property goals'. And sometimes you might need to move sideways to move up, to move forward.

Tyrone Shum:

Yup.

Scott Baker:

And I've met a lot of people who have been caught on, 'No, no. I'm not going to sell the properties. I'm not going to like...'. But hang on a second. You need to have a look at your bigger strategy. What does 5 [or] 10 [or] 20 years look like? Because you've got a property here that's not performing. If you were to sell it and extract the equity— yes, there's some selling costs and stamp duty repurchase costs, but if you can then go and buy another asset that's going to be accelerating your wealth creation at a faster rate, that's a good thing.

And I think a lot of people get caught in this 'I don't want to sell any property ever. I've just got to hold them all for 30 years, and life will be good'. But no, it's an investment. You've got to review it. You've got to review its performance. And like, if you bought shares, do you just hold shares forever? No. Like, some of them go up, some of them go down. With they're going down, or they're not working, do you need to cut your losses and reinvest in something else?

It's that same kind of mindset that needs, like, consistent 'can't sit and forget'. Like, every year, you've got to check in. How's it working? How's the market doing? Is it doing what I expected? Is it helping me achieve my long-term goals? Is it holding me back? You know, I think it's something that's got to constantly be reviewed.

Emotions: In or Out?

Tyrone Shum:

Experiencing firsthand that success isn’t just about the numbers, Baker takes a stance and gives an unconventional take on involving emotions in property investing.

Scott Baker:

I think in hindsight, looking back, it was... I did have a bit in my gut of that uncomfortable like, 'Oh my god, I've got to sell a property. This is a terrible thing'. But in hindsight, it's, like, no, it helped us achieve a bigger property goal, which it was even a property goal that became not just about the money and the investing. This was about family and lifestyle, and our future. And I think this is as well where, and I say to some clients, sometimes it's good to get your emotions involved in something.

If people have... Not everything is about the numbers and the investment and da-da-da. Like, this is your life. If this house is going to be in the area you want to live and give your family freedom and happiness and excitement and joy and [the] like, that is good. So I think it's sometimes balancing the letting the emotional side of property purchasing with the non-emotional side.

There are certain transactions where you need to think: What is this going to bring to you and your family and your lifestyle? And does it still mean you can invest and do all these other things, or whatever scenario might be?

But I think it's a powerful thing to think, like, 'Do you know what? This is going to change our family's life. It's in the area we want. It's got the space we needed. It's we can visualise a happy life for the next 10 years'. It's good to have those conversations and have those feelings.

Strategies and Perspectives

Tyrone Shum:

Baker’s approach to property and business has always been about constant learning and adapting. By combining his own experiences in refining customer experience with a deep understanding of market dynamics, he now stresses the importance of planning, seeking different viewpoints, and developing a correct mindset.

Scott Baker:

It's been interesting. As a mortgage broker, [I think] it's fascinating to just learn about... We meet so many people. Even just things about what people do for a living—like there's a job for everything out there. And you meet so many people who do a job [where] you're like, 'Oh my god, I guess someone has to do that, and you do it'.

So it's so fascinating. And you get to learn about different people's property strategies. And I share just... It's really I share about mindset, and I share just from my own learnings. And people like to understand it. Like, if someone's doing a renovation, I'm like, 'Well, hey, I've done this. This is what we went through. These are some of the challenges we had. Now, these are some of the things you need to look out for. These are some of the questions I think you need to ask the builder or the architects', whatever it is.

And a lot of the mindset stuff, and especially for people at the start of their property journey, is like that whole thing I mentioned around your first home is not your forever home.

Tyrone Shum:

Yep.

Scott Baker:

And there's so much, I think, from my own experience that I share from a mindset perspective. And even investors who might be looking to get into that second, third, [or] fourth investment property, it's understanding 'Great. Well, this is what you can do. This is what you can achieve', but also trying to even, like, link them around other professionals to get their view on it. Because I think a lot of people do things solo.

So it's like, have a chat, too. And you don't even need to fully engage their services, but get some different perspectives from whether it be like buyer's agents' or conveyancers' or... Like, go and talk to people. Getting different people's perspectives on different markets. Because there’s...

I believe there's no like one strategy that is a one-size-fits-all.

Tyrone Shum:

Yep, true.

Scott Baker:

For some people, based on their mindset, their risk appetite, an investment property will service their needs, whereas others might be, like, it's six properties. I want to retire with $X00,000 of passive income. How do we get there, Scott? Cool, no worries. I love it. We've got a goal. Let's work back. Let's put a bit of a game plan in place.

But it's so much around mindset and thinking longer term. But also, whilst you think long term, you need to be reviewing your portfolio every 12 months.

Tyrone Shum:

Yes, very true.

Scott Baker:

Has that property worked? What's happening in the local economy, the local market? Are you getting the right rental yield? Property, I believe, is, yes, it's long term, but it's not 'sit and forget'. It's an annual review strategy to then really accelerate what compounding can do over that long term.

On Continuous Learning

Tyrone Shum:

With a clear deep appreciation for knowledge and personal growth, Baker encourages a broad approach to learning—whilst spotlighting the huge value that storytelling in podcasts brings to the table.

Scott Baker:

I wouldn't say there's like one key source. I'm big on learning from lots of different places. And as an example, I've read property investment books. I've read personal development books. I've read books like 'Start With Why' by Simon Sinek or or even I actually read a lot of behavioral psychology books. Psychology fascinates me.

Tyrone Shum:

Yeah, me too.

Scott Baker:

And it fascinates me around mindset and how, if you get presented a scenario or you see something that can guide you to make a purchasing decision this way or that way, depending on what you saw, and things like that.

Tyrone Shum:

Yeah.

Scott Baker:

So it's been a variety of different sources. And I think, probably, like I said, I've learnt things from reading a behavioral psychology book or behavioral economics book that, yes, it's not directly related to property, but it helps with mindset. And this is where I think you can actually get so many nuggets of gold from.

I wouldn't keep your research narrow. If you're a property investor and want to grow your property investment portfolio, there's so many other resources out there that are a bit [or] could be a bit left of center, that can give you a bit of a light bulb moment of like, 'Oh, that's interesting. Hang on. I can take that and apply it to my property strategy'.

And I think as well listening to... when you're listening to podcast. Podcasts I love because it's a lot more storytelling.

Tyrone Shum:

Yes.

Scott Baker:

And like I said before, there's not one property investment strategy that's, 'Oh, that's the right one'.

Everyone's got something different and for different reasons. And that's where I think variety is the key. Listening to a variety of different podcasts or episodes within a podcast, just to hear different people's stories. Because something will connect with you, and you're like, 'Oh my god, like, that's kind of my story. Like, that's interesting. I haven't thought about doing it that way. I'm going to look into that further'.

Going Out and Exploring

Tyrone Shum:

Now in retrospect, Baker considers what advice he would give to his younger self, should he have the chance to travel back a decade and meet the man he once was.

Scott Baker:

Let me just get my head into where I was 10 years ago.

2015—in the depths of my retail days... Yeah, that's an interesting question. I mean, I'm someone who I've never had regrets in life. Like, I've had people ask me about getting into mortgage broking: 'Oh, do you wish you did it 10 years earlier?'. I'm like, 'Well, not really'. I'm like, 'Yeah, but no'. Like, my journey took me on a place to come to it when I got to it. And I found my thing now, which is my passion in life.

Like, I don't work; I don't have a job. What I do is just so much fun. I'm obsessed with talking to people about property, their goals, and education, on all that stuff. And I think everyone's different. It's like that whole thing about coming back to having it figured out when you get to school. I've got such a different mindset on school, and what's the purpose of school for our kids, and the pressure we put on them to have it all figured out. I'm like, you don't.

If my kids get to 18 [years old] and they're not sure what they want to do, I'm going to be saying, 'Honestly, go and travel the world'.

Tyrone Shum:

Yeah.

Scott Baker:

Go and experience. Go and experience different jobs, different cultures, [and] different things—that is going to inspire you to figure out what it is you want to do in life.

I had a great, successful retail career, and I loved it. And, yeah, I was never unhappy. It wasn't just a job. I enjoyed it, but then I figured out my passions in life, and that was at the age of, what, 35 or 36—so six years ago that [I was] like, 'Oh my god. Like, wow, I'm doing a job that's those four things'. And I've said to people, 'If those four things equaled, like, being an air hostie or something, I'd be flying in the skies right now'.

But it just equaled mortgage broker. I gave it a go, and here we are. But you know, advice to myself 10 years ago? Yeah, yeah... I think it's the exploring, the curiosity.

Don't be afraid to be curious and try new things and get out of your comfort zone. I did do that stuff. I might have been slower getting to that. But that whole getting out of your comfort zone and exploring something is a powerful tool of what it can lead to.

On Vision and Financial Literacy

Tyrone Shum:

With an eye on the future, Baker is driven by a forward-thinking perspective that benefits not only his zeal in educating the clients in the business he aims to grow but also in his goal to diversify his portfolio.

Scott Baker:

With property, definitely from a diversification pace, commercial property is something to look into. I'm also look[ing] at... We're going to be... I jumped 41 [years old] now and then I'm going to be 51 [years old] —and like we're all getting older.

Your property strategy when you're 21 [years old] shouldn't be the same as when you're 45 [years old] so it's about constantly reviewing the property strategy and looking at other asset classes. And yet, commercial property is the big one to be looking into from a diversification perspective. From the business perspective, I'm still... I feel like I'm young, I'm hungry, I've got energy.

The vision for the business [is] we want to be the number one brokerage in Australia for education and building people's financial confidence.

Tyrone Shum:

Excellent.

Scott Baker:

My deep passion around a lot of this is educating people on how to build financial confidence and create a future for themselves that they are self-sufficient. I would love as to everyone to have the education, to not get to retirement and then have to rely on government welfare to pay them money until they die. And it still blows my mind today that money, budgeting, compound interest, finance, all that stuff, is not compulsory in school right through to Grade 12 from primary school. Because it's one of the only subjects that all of us have to deal with when we leave school.

Tyrone Shum:

That's right.

Scott Baker:

It's left up to our parents to teach us, and every parent will do it differently and have different levels of experience in education. So that just blows my mind, and that's something I'm so passionate about. And we spend so much time—probably too much time—with our clients educating them on the numbers and how things work and how concepts work.

Because, firstly, I just love it, but I'm trying to build them, and I want them to walk away feeling empowered, like, 'Oh my god. Like, I get this. I didn't think I could buy an investment property, but I get it. We can. I thought that was just for different [or] rich people' or whatever. It's like, 'No, no, no. Like, everyday people can buy an investment property. This is how it works. This is how you do it. These are the risks. These are the rewards'.

That's definitely a big passion of mine. And if I can help more people feel confident financially with their money, then that's going to give me a world of satisfaction.

Tyrone Shum:

That's amazing. We need more of your educational, I guess, outreaches like this, because you're right. There isn't enough education in our school system. There isn't enough education in general, and that's the reason why still a large percentage of people just don't have a financial literacy in our society, which is sad. But eventually, I think most people will probably learn it through some shape or form, whether through experience or through an educational course.

Scott Baker:

Definitely. And the biggest expense for the government is welfare. And if in... And this is the thing, it's a long-term view seeing if people had the education to understand compound interests and all of that stuff. But imagine what the government could spend the money on if they didn't need welfare or significantly less. Like, all of our taxes could reduce, or they could spend the money on creating this into be an even more amazing country, you know? So yeah.

On Created Luck

Tyrone Shum:

You've achieved quite a lot, and you've been very successful in your own right and so forth and like that. How much of this success is due to your skill intelligence and hard work, and how much do you think it's been because of luck?

Scott Baker:

I'm someone who doesn't believe in luck. I'm also someone who doesn't believe in like 'Oh, things just happen for a reason'. I'm like, 'No, no, no. Like, luck is created'.

Tyrone Shum:

Yeah.

Scott Baker:

There's a saying [that goes], like, 'Luck is the meeting of preparation and opportunity'. And you make your own luck. Like, if you're going to be proactive to learn and educate and do more than what's required in the job, or all these types of things, this is the stuff that creates opportunities.

It's an old thing around if you're trying to get a promotion in your job, like, you need to start acting and behaving like the person whose job you want. What are they doing? What are they doing for work? How are they behaving? What's their tone, [and] body language in meeting? You just need to start acting like the person you want to become. And whether that's a job or it's an investment strategy or who you want to be, the fastest way to do that is just do.

And a lot of people psychologically [go] like, 'Oh, it's imposter syndrome', or 'I don't feel comfortable'. You've just got to get uncomfortable and put yourself out there and start acting like that person you want to become. And I think, yeah, in my life and journey, I've always been someone who's very curious.

[In] my retail years, when I started mortgage broking, my mentor at the time, he was like, 'You remind me of a four-year-old', because he's like, 'Everything you're asking, "Yeah, but why? But why?"'. Okay, so this is how it works? Yeah, but why? But why does that work? Like, why does that happen? Or how's it going to do [that]?

But I think curiosity is a good trait to have, because it accelerates the learning.

And when I started broking. I never wanted a deal to, like, not going to prove because I was new. Yes, I'd known property for years and understood the basics of it, but being curious and asking questions really helps. [It] accelerated my learning in my property journey, but also since I started my mortgage broking business.

**OUTRO**

Tyrone Shum:

Thank you to Scott Baker, our guest on this episode of Property Investory.