2018-03-09 NSPRM - Plato - Parmenides (hyp5) - Difference, Derivation, and Denial of Experience - Free Audiobook

Dialogue(s): parmenides

Chapters: hyp5

Sections: 159b-160b (P1-P18)

Attendees: Pierre, Barbara, David, Regina, JulieH, JulieP, Eldar

Notes

How is 5 or 6 necessary, after hyp4?

The Role of 'Difference'

Rejection of the idea of likeness and unlikeness being inherent in the selves (in the 5th)

Therefore, we can turn it around and say, is it not interesting that likeness and unlikeness ARE inherent in selves? For if they were inherent in selves, they could then be said to be like and unlike.

Numbers are selves. Logos is Self. Good is Self. All the ideas are inherent in Self.

Since they are not different by self (which is the only way they could be different), then they are not in same and are only 'other'.

Can you exclude the idea of the Self in the 5th hyp? But these ideas presuppose the Self: it is by the Self that they exist.

Derivation: The One and the Others both are different. But both presuppose the existence of the Self, because presumably it is from the Self that they emerge or have their existence.

The force of the 5th and 6th could be: The One and the Others never subsist in one another. What is included in the idea of 'same'? (In which case 6 would not negate 5)

Is the conclusion to 5 and 6 that there is no different (at all) because they don't exist in 'same'? And if they are never in same, they don't (all) exist as 'different'.

Does P6 repeat itself in P11?

P17: a principle. And can you see in this paragraph that anything that 'sustains' itself by 'undergoing' some experience, that they would necessarily be participating in '1', '2' and '3'?

In the list, there is one that is singular: "equal".

(DavidC: On Women's Day, he took his class through the Republic, the part where women should be completely equal to men.)

Does P18 sum up hyp2 through hyp5? Or does it sum up only hyp5? (Looking at the Greek, maybe "and so also" would be better as "just so" or "in same manner"? etc)

Working from Plato's Parmenides: The Juan and Maria Balboa Translation

More info: [http://noeticsociety.org/psg](http://noeticsociety.org/psg)

Image Riot courtesy of Flickr user AK Rockefeller under a CC BY-SA 2.0 license when downloaded on 2018-03-13.